Has this potential plot hole been discussed before?

[David Simmons]

Hey all,

The comments and ideas in the thread about Ridley Scott's future (or not)
with the series got me to thinking. In the first film, the Company sends
the Nostromo crew to the planet with the intent of bringing back the life
form as the highest priority, even beyond protecting the lives of the crew.
Despite Ash's attempts to the contrary, this did not happen. Yet, as Ripley
finds out at the beginning of the second film, there's been people living on
LV-426 for over twenty years. Why was no action taken to retrieve another
specimen during the 57 years Ripley was in cryo-sleep? If the company
wanted the alien so badly and they knew the location of the planet, why not
send out a more prepared and qualified team to attempt another extraction?
Why let the terraformers set up camp instead of a crack team of marines and
scientists?

John Redman's point about the company's demand for the creature going
unexplained is very interesting and has potential. I'm thinking it would be
a neat idea if the company wants the alien because the SJ's race is in fact
the one that we're fighting. That would explain why the company wants the
alien so badly. Know your enemy, and more importantly, familiarize yourself
with your enemy's weapons. Perhaps the humans are encroaching on the SJ
races' territory and the alien has been the weapon of choice to let us know
not to *uck with them. Such a story, if properly researched and written,
could provide a pretty awesome capstone to the series.

Whaddaya think?

Dave S.

[Covenant]

Post by David Simmons
Hey all,
The comments and ideas in the thread about Ridley Scott's future (or not)
with the series got me to thinking. In the first film, the Company sends
the Nostromo crew to the planet with the intent of bringing back the life
form as the highest priority, even beyond protecting the lives of the crew.
Despite Ash's attempts to the contrary, this did not happen. Yet, as Ripley
finds out at the beginning of the second film, there's been people living on
LV-426 for over twenty years. Why was no action taken to retrieve another
specimen during the 57 years Ripley was in cryo-sleep? If the company
wanted the alien so badly and they knew the location of the planet, why not
send out a more prepared and qualified team to attempt another extraction?
Why let the terraformers set up camp instead of a crack team of marines and
scientists?

;' )

Ask James Cameron !

Seriously though, this has been discussed before.
(There's little that hasn't these days!!!)

;' )

But its hard to come ot any kind of concensus about it.

Some are of the opinion that It was assumed that Ash was reprogrammed etc by
an individual the same as Burke, IE someone acting on their own volition
outside company guidelines, when they realised the nostromo was gone, rather
than take responsibility for a massive dollar loos.. they delete all their
actions and act.. *normal*.

In effect, it is reasonable to conject that the company DOESN'T really know
about the Alien until the marines land!


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[John Redman]

Post by Covenant
Some are of the opinion that It was assumed that Ash was reprogrammed etc by
an individual the same as Burke, IE someone acting on their own volition
outside company guidelines,

And the Company's apparent bonus policy - you find it, you own it - would
encourage such secretive behaviour and disincline people to share knowledge
around.

[Algomeysa2]

Post by David Simmons
LV-426 for over twenty years. Why was no action taken to retrieve another
specimen during the 57 years Ripley was in cryo-sleep? If the company
wanted the alien so badly and they knew the location of the planet, why not
send out a more prepared and qualified team to attempt another extraction?

This really isn't the showstopper you make it out to be.

Any giant corporation today has massive projects that get cancelled at the
whim of a change of management.

And since their actions would be questionable legally (sacrificing a crew to
get a specimen) it's rather unlikely it was written up in the company
newsletter.

Nostromo vanished, and, some corporate heads rolled.

5 years later, who in the company would even know about the former special
project?

As someone pointed out when this has been discussed before, most giant
corporations don't have a library of failed projects, a history section.
"Ways We've Screwed Up In The Past"

Burke found some obscure file in some dusty databank, and that set him on
the path.

[John Redman]

Post by Algomeysa2
Burke found some obscure file in some dusty databank, and that set him on
the path.

Or downloaded Mother's files from a backup aboard Ripley's life boat.

[Adam Cameron]

Post by David Simmons
Know your enemy, and more importantly, familiarize yourself
with your enemy's weapons.

This is an interesting thought. Any other conversation I've heard in
regards to this is the company wants it for a weapon for they themselves to
use. Not because they're trying to protect themselves from someone else
using it on them. Nice one.

[John Redman]

Post by David Simmons
I'm thinking it would be
a neat idea if the company wants the alien because the SJ's race is in fact
the one that we're fighting.

That's an interesting point. We never find out the full content of the SJ's
signal, only that it was a warning; but the Company decodes enough to know
there is something interesting abord the derelict. So what if that signal
mentioned not only what had happened aboard the derelict, but what was
supposed to happen? Like, where it was taking the eggs?

Although the derelict appears to be very old, it could be a consequence of
FTL travel. For all we know the SJs screwed up and the derelict arrived in
near-Earth space alone, half a million years ahead of the rest of the
exploration force.

What if the Company are actually the good guys - trying to obtain an alien
so a counter can be devised before more SJs turn up with more aliens?

[Robert]

Post by John Redman
What if the Company are actually the good guys - trying to obtain an alien
so a counter can be devised before more SJs turn up with more aliens?

I rather like this idea now, if you can come up with some logical
back-story as to how the Company figured this all out. I think you'll need a
bit more than just the beacon info.

[John Redman]

Post by Robert
I rather like this idea now, if you can come up with some logical
back-story as to how the Company figured this all out. I think you'll need
a bit more than just the beacon info.

You could fit quite a vast amount of compressed info into a 12-second
signal, I would guess. How many bytes is that on say $mb broadband?

Clearly the Company have figured out what is aboard, otherwise they wouldn't
know there was any specimen to gather. It doesn't seem to me to be
stretching things too far to have, in A6, a full transcript / translation of
the transmission.

As for what might be in it, how about:-

- this is [vessel's identifying number] on route [flight path - so many
hours out of point A, inbound to point B], calling point A
- one egg-weapon has hatched
- all containment attempts have failed
- apparently this version of the adult creature bleeds through the hull. Why
didn't you tell us this?
- it has now generated 30 more eggs from its captures
- ship and remaining crew beyond help
- for God's sake stay away

The third, fourth, and fifth details might well be telling the derelict's
owners something they already know. Whoever drafted the warning signal did
not necessarily have all that information, though; most crew aboard USS
Indianapolis did not know she was carrying the first nuke.

Had the movie taken a different path, such that Ripley didn't get to hear
Ash's confession, got facehugged, and was unable to destroy Nostromo, there
seems little doubt that she would have set up a warning too, probably with
much that content.

Just as the Company might not have been too surprised by that warning's
contents, perhaps the SJ's intended audience wouldn't have been either. In
the Company's case, though, they might conceivably have figured out where
points A and B were; what if B looked like our solar system? In that case,
you would almost certainly hotfoot it out there to bag the first specimen
you could. Of course, if you could keep it secret for a while, you could
also get rich.

And so somebody took a fateful decision to re-route Nostromo with no
preparation possible beyond placing Ash aboard at the last moment.

[Covenant]

Post by John Redman

Post by David Simmons
I'm thinking it would be
a neat idea if the company wants the alien because the SJ's race is in fact
the one that we're fighting.

That's an interesting point. We never find out the full content of the SJ's
signal, only that it was a warning; but the Company decodes enough to know
there is something interesting abord the derelict.

Well, if Ripley decoded enough to know it was a warning on a clapped-out
tugboat, surely the company would have gotten more?

Post by John Redman
So what if that signal
mentioned not only what had happened aboard the derelict, but what was
supposed to happen? Like, where it was taking the eggs?

Maybe a leap to say where it was taking them. But to say what was happening,
no doubt about that at all!

Post by John Redman
Although the derelict appears to be very old, it could be a consequence of
FTL travel. For all we know the SJs screwed up and the derelict arrived in
near-Earth space alone, half a million years ahead of the rest of the
exploration force.
What if the Company are actually the good guys - trying to obtain an alien
so a counter can be devised before more SJs turn up with more aliens?

Naaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!

;' )))


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[wmmvrrvrrmm]

Post by John Redman
What if the Company are actually the good guys - trying to obtain an alien
so a counter can be devised before more SJs turn up with more aliens?

do you mean more living space jockeys or more spacejockey fossils?

Dom

[John Redman]

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm

Post by John Redman
What if the Company are actually the good guys - trying to obtain an alien
so a counter can be devised before more SJs turn up with more aliens?

do you mean more living space jockeys or more spacejockey fossils?

The former. Dead ones are not dangerous. "Think it's safe to assume it isn't
a zombie."

[wmmvrrvrrmm]

Post by John Redman

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm
do you mean more living space jockeys or more spacejockey fossils?

The former. Dead ones are not dangerous. "Think it's safe to assume it isn't
a zombie."

hmm, a next question might be, should someone in the Alien movies be
expected to assume that there are still living space jockeys?

[John Redman]

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm

Post by John Redman

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm
do you mean more living space jockeys or more spacejockey fossils?

The former. Dead ones are not dangerous. "Think it's safe to assume it isn't
a zombie."

hmm, a next question might be, should someone in the Alien movies be
expected to assume that there are still living space jockeys?

The nature of their FTL technology might suggest it. In heading for earth it
perhaps inadvertently travelled a few hundred thousand years into its
future.

[Covenant]

Post by John Redman

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm

Post by John Redman

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm
do you mean more living space jockeys or more spacejockey fossils?

The former. Dead ones are not dangerous. "Think it's safe to assume it isn't
a zombie."

hmm, a next question might be, should someone in the Alien movies be
expected to assume that there are still living space jockeys?

The nature of their FTL technology might suggest it. In heading for earth it
perhaps inadvertently travelled a few hundred thousand years into its
future.

Maybe it wasn't heading to Earth....

Maybe it was making a return trip !?
(You know.... having seeded the planet for the predators... )

;' )

--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands