Discussion:
New Aliens Book.
(too old to reply)
Morris.C
2005-10-07 05:26:56 UTC
Permalink
It's been about a year since I posted anything here, so when this came to
my attention, I thought I'll revisit the 'ol newsgroup.

Has anyone read, or heard about, the new novel 'Aliens: Original Sin'?

To quote the blurb from 'Diamond-Previews':
"It also sorts out unanswered questions from the movies and raises entirely
new ones. Was it just coincidence that the Nostromo happened to pass by the
desolate planet? Why was the alien on the crashed ship in the first place?"

The story contains the Ripley-clone and Call from Alien:Resurection.

If it *can* answer the questions quoted above, will this newsgroup get any
quieter?
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-07 11:14:11 UTC
Permalink
oh that might be interesting or even not interesting at all. It depends
if the answers are ones that I couldn't give a damn about or if the
person writing the book has an interesting perspective
ADWatts
2005-10-07 19:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morris.C
It's been about a year since I posted anything here, so when this came to
my attention, I thought I'll revisit the 'ol newsgroup.
Has anyone read, or heard about, the new novel 'Aliens: Original Sin'?
I read the Steve Perry books when they first came out,
and only found them mildly amusing. So I don't really
pay much attention to the novels. Maybe I should, but
I have a ton of "better" books to get to.
Post by Morris.C
"It also sorts out unanswered questions from the movies and raises entirely
new ones. Was it just coincidence that the Nostromo happened to pass by the
desolate planet?
Errmmm, we already know the answer to that. The Company
re-routed the Nostromo. Duh. We've known that since the
first film.
Post by Morris.C
Why was the alien on the crashed ship in the first place?"
Plenty of speculation there. I want to see that answer on
film, not in some book.
Post by Morris.C
The story contains the Ripley-clone and Call from Alien:Resurection.
Well, now I'm definately not going to read it. ;-)
Post by Morris.C
If it *can* answer the questions quoted above, will this newsgroup get any
quieter?
The books aren't "canon". So no.

I was just looking at a "timeline" on-line the other day for
the Alien series which included all the books and comics.
I found it hilarious how many contradictions there were.
AR itself pretty much nullified almost all of the book/comic
"history", including the Steve Perry stuff I read.

The sequels have screwed things up enough; I don't take
any of the book/comic stuff serious at all. And that includes
the comic book film called AvP.

But I'm only speaking for myself.

Have a great day!

Ahmed
Covenant
2005-10-07 21:11:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morris.C
It's been about a year since I posted anything here, so when this came to
my attention, I thought I'll revisit the 'ol newsgroup.
Has anyone read, or heard about, the new novel 'Aliens: Original Sin'?
"It also sorts out unanswered questions from the movies and raises entirely
new ones. Was it just coincidence that the Nostromo happened to pass by the
desolate planet? Why was the alien on the crashed ship in the first place?"
The story contains the Ripley-clone and Call from Alien:Resurection.
If it *can* answer the questions quoted above, will this newsgroup get any
quieter?
Nope cos the books aren't considered *canon*..

(aaahhh THAT old chestnut!)

;' )


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-07 21:28:51 UTC
Permalink
I took a look at the preview pages at the Dark Horse site and it has
bored me to death already
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-08 00:06:18 UTC
Permalink
I don't think even the explanations and assumptions in the film sequels
for anything are *canon* either anymore
Morris.C
2005-10-11 23:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morris.C
Post by Morris.C
It's been about a year since I posted anything here, so when this
came to my attention, I thought I'll revisit the 'ol newsgroup.
Has anyone read, or heard about, the new novel 'Aliens: Original Sin'?
"It also sorts out unanswered questions from the movies and raises
entirely
Post by Morris.C
new ones. Was it just coincidence that the Nostromo happened to pass
by
the
Post by Morris.C
desolate planet? Why was the alien on the crashed ship in the first
place?"
Post by Morris.C
The story contains the Ripley-clone and Call from Alien:Resurection.
If it *can* answer the questions quoted above, will this newsgroup
get any quieter?
Nope cos the books aren't considered *canon*..
(aaahhh THAT old chestnut!)
;' )
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
What makes the books NOT canon?
Covenant
2005-10-12 02:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morris.C
Post by Morris.C
Post by Morris.C
It's been about a year since I posted anything here, so when this
came to my attention, I thought I'll revisit the 'ol newsgroup.
Has anyone read, or heard about, the new novel 'Aliens: Original Sin'?
"It also sorts out unanswered questions from the movies and raises
entirely
Post by Morris.C
new ones. Was it just coincidence that the Nostromo happened to pass
by
the
Post by Morris.C
desolate planet? Why was the alien on the crashed ship in the first
place?"
Post by Morris.C
The story contains the Ripley-clone and Call from Alien:Resurection.
If it *can* answer the questions quoted above, will this newsgroup
get any quieter?
Nope cos the books aren't considered *canon*..
(aaahhh THAT old chestnut!)
;' )
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
What makes the books NOT canon?
If its onscreen. Its canon.
(Generally speaking)


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
Morris.C
2005-10-12 03:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Covenant
Post by Morris.C
Post by Covenant
Nope cos the books aren't considered *canon*..
(aaahhh THAT old chestnut!)
;' )
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
What makes the books NOT canon?
If its onscreen. Its canon.
(Generally speaking)
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
Surely if it's a licensed work, authorised by Fox (and Brandywine
Productions Ltd. ??) it must follow some sort of 'dos and don'ts' ,rules
if you like, when it was written.
What stops it from not being part of the mythos?

I suppose if it turns out to be great, it will be accepted as canon.
If it ends up being a piece of Alien shit, it will be dismissed as such.
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-12 13:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morris.C
Surely if it's a licensed work, authorised by Fox (and Brandywine
Productions Ltd. ??) it must follow some sort of 'dos and don'ts' ,rules
if you like, when it was written.
What stops it from not being part of the mythos?
well, really to make it authoritive to me personally on some level, the
book would have to be born out of conversations with the producers and
the directors and anyone actually involved in the film production who
really knew what was going on in terms of the story.


actually, only Ridley Scott had any idea what was going on with the
derelict in the original movie, so I would only accept his views,
unless there was some genius who had a really good idea that brings
life to the idea of the derelict mystery.


Well, if there was a list of do's and dont's that worked, judging by
James Cameron's Aliens and all the other following movies, this list
needs working on.


Dom
Cpl Leach
2005-10-12 15:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Well, if there was a list of do's and dont's that worked, judging by
James Cameron's Aliens and all the other following movies, this list
needs working on.
Contradiction in the franchise is rampant - but its very localised if
you ask me.

AR contradicts all the EU stuff such as comics and books etc.
And vice versa. I say just remove one or the other from your own
perspective and the story seems to bond a lot more.
I'd personally stick with the EU books and comics as there are more
stories, plots and characters.

I know I'll buy the book and read it obviously. I'm hoping it follows
the lines of the USCM Tech Manuals transcripts in which the company
plot and people involved is bought to life somewhat.

OK, thats me - rant over!!
Covenant
2005-10-12 16:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@yahoo.com
actually, only Ridley Scott had any idea what was going on with the
derelict in the original movie, so I would only accept his views,
unless there was some genius who had a really good idea that brings
life to the idea of the derelict mystery.
Well... not solely.... Dan's input was still neccessary.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Well, if there was a list of do's and dont's that worked, judging by
James Cameron's Aliens and all the other following movies, this list
needs working on.
Doesn;t it just !

;' )

--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-12 21:12:09 UTC
Permalink
Okay, Dan O'Bannon had good ideas about the original derelict for his
script but well, and contributed to what was put there, he doesn't know
anything about how to explain the situation regarding the derelict ship
in the final movie, and he hasn't been someone who has put himself in
the situation of imagining the premise of a sequel.

Dom
Covenant
2005-10-13 00:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Okay, Dan O'Bannon had good ideas about the original derelict for his
script but well, and contributed to what was put there, he doesn't know
anything about how to explain the situation regarding the derelict ship
in the final movie,
;' )
Maybe he does.. But that final decision was with Ridley.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
and he hasn't been someone who has put himself in
the situation of imagining the premise of a sequel.
Or a prequel!


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-13 05:01:36 UTC
Permalink
well if he did have ideas about how to explain the film 's final
derelict vessel, he didn't share them with anyone, and he never seemed
interested to offer any form of speculation other than talk about the
derelict from his own original script as the only thing that really
counted. He has been quite hard arsed about that.
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-13 10:59:16 UTC
Permalink
covenant said something in the region of " Or a prequel!"

Such is the imagination of Dan, that going by what he has said since
the Alien vs Predator film, he suggested to the makers of AvP the idea
that the Predators should be the adult form of the Aliens. The thought
that he should make such an association is terrifying enough


Dom
ROBERT LAWFORD
2005-10-14 10:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Covenant
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Okay, Dan O'Bannon had good ideas about the original derelict for his
script but well, and contributed to what was put there, he doesn't know
anything about how to explain the situation regarding the derelict ship
in the final movie,
;' )
Maybe he does.. But that final decision was with Ridley.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
and he hasn't been someone who has put himself in
the situation of imagining the premise of a sequel.
Or a prequel!
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
I actually prefer not having an official explanation for the derelict being
on that planetoid. It adds something to the movie and makes things more
interesting. It's a pity we can't think of Alien in isolation. Every time we
do, the sequels rear their heads!
w***@yahoo.com
2005-10-14 13:25:18 UTC
Permalink
do you mean that you would prefer that we all sit in isolated places
and think about the movie Alien, or about the main horrifying alien
creature in all its forms throughout the the movies?

ADWatts
2005-10-12 20:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Well, if there was a list of do's and dont's that worked, judging by
James Cameron's Aliens and all the other following movies, this list
needs working on.
You can say that again! :-)

Have a great day!

Ahmed
ADWatts
2005-10-12 20:33:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morris.C
Surely if it's a licensed work, authorised by Fox (and Brandywine
Productions Ltd. ??) it must follow some sort of 'dos and don'ts' ,rules
if you like, when it was written.
What stops it from not being part of the mythos?
Part of the "mythos"? Sure. Canon? No.
Post by Morris.C
I suppose if it turns out to be great, it will be accepted as canon.
If it ends up being a piece of Alien shit, it will be dismissed as such.
Quality has nothing to do with it.

Wikipedia has a pretty good page which gives a lot
of great examples about what canon means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28fiction%29

But I think that one of the first sentences sums it up
the best:

"Usually items that are considered canon come from
the original source of the fictional universe while
non-canon material comes from adaptations or
unofficial items."

My own defination is pretty much something like this:

Only material that originates from the creator(s) of
that "universe", plus any outside material that the
creator(s) publicly authorize to be acceptable, is
canon.

I think the perfect example for this is Wikipedia's
first example of the Babylon 5 universe. Straczynski
kept tight control to ensure that everything fits together
so that novels and comics can fit within the canon.

Then you have variations on that theme.

Tolkien and the Middle-Earth universe. Canon is his
writings and artwork *only*. Certainly not the films,
although I love Peter Jackson's movies. They are only
adaptations.

Roddenberry and the Star Trek universe. Fans may
argue from one extreme to the other, but Roddenberry
himself laid out what he viewed as canon, and as the
creator, that's the word I take. The TV series and the
films. Interestingly, he does not include the animated
series, and has some reservations about Star Trek
V & VI. (If he'd been alive he might have questioned
ST: Enterprise as well. :-) )

I think the original medium is important, too. If a
universe began in a comic series, that trumps anything
else whether or not other sources are considered
canon or not.

Lucas Liscensing came up with an interesting solution
for the Star Wars universe by setting up a heirarchy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

Thus there is a ton of stuff which is considered canon,
but everything is trumped by what's on film.

Unfortunately, because the only thing Fox ever cared
about was money, the Alien series was screwed from
the first sequel. That hack, David Giler, has had his
nasty little fingers in the mix the entire way (and the
somewhat more talented Walter Hill through the first
three films), but in reality *nobody* who was involved in
creating the Alien universe for the first film had any
involvement with the sequels.

The Alien universe is a complete mess. Basically, I
still accept all the films in the Alien series (which
does *not* include AvP -- that's a universe of its own)
as canon because that would be the most generally
accepted defination.

But if I want to be bitchy and stubborn about it, I see
the creators of the Alien universe as: Dan O'Bannon,
Ronald Shusett, H.R. Giger, and Ridley Scott -- in that
order. Take away any of them, and you have a very
different end product (for better or worse). *Many*
other people made tremendous contributions
(especially the actors), but those were the four
creative forces.

In my mind, by the purest defination, *only* Alien is
canon. Each film has pretty much set up own little
"alternative" universes.

I say, it's *creators* universe which is canon. But it's
frickin' Fox who holds all the "rights", and has screwed
things up royally for the Alien universe.

But even ignoring my own extreme opinions, the novels
(good or bad) can't even come close to being considered
canon. And that's the main point here.

Have a great day!

Ahmed
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