Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEPost by TracyWhy??? Because they have strong
feelings about the food they put in
their digestive tracts and how they
think animals in the food chain
should be treated??
Vegetarians aren't the only ones who
feel that way.
The difference is, some of them get
the idea that it's their mission in
life to convert others to
vegetarianism based on these
arguments.
True. It's called conviction! Bit like
*some* born-again Christians and
Jehovah Witnesses!!
Obviously, that's an oblique reference to the contents of my private
messages, some bearing Christian themes.
For the record, these were forwarded onto me by family members, friends and
colleagues, along with other philosophical perspectives.
By no means could any of these people could ever be characterised as
"born-again"
anything, let alone Jehovah's Witnesses.
To my knowledge, most of them don't even attend church.
How I interpreted these forwards is that, even if it was only in a small
way, at least I know that family members, friends and colleagues were
thinking about me, trying to stay in touch and wishing me well.
I then took what they forwarded to me, trimming the chevrons, centering the
text, editing the spelling and punctuation, modifying the font and
background colour, and finally adding appropriate graphics and music which I
found off the Internet.
I also transformed a simple Chinese greeting into a multimedia cultural
experience, if you recall.
By doing so, not only was I showing them that I actually took the time to
read the message, but that I took it to heart, too.
At no time did you ever privately indicate that you objected to any of the
material which I had forwarded to you.
As a matter of fact, without quoting your private comments, you had
expressed much approval.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEThe thing with vegetarians (especially
ones who has researched the dietary
requirements) are more aware of the
harm in meat products
Aboriginal people, farmers, fishermen and hunters are no less conscious or
conscientious about our Mother Earth and its inhabitants; after all, their
very livelihood and survival depends upon it.
Post by Tracy- as consumers
of meat, many people actually dont
care about the welfare of the animal or
the chemical/medication content of the
meat but,
If that were even the least bit true, then a market for organic meat
wouldn't have sprung up over the past 30 years.
Also, unless certified as organically-grown, you can be certain that plants
are generally
produced under much the same conditions.
Post by Tracywhen ignorance plays a part,
It is fallacious to assume that others are ignorant merely because they
don't become vegetarian overnight.
There are all sorts of reasons why people don't become vegetarian:
Accessibility, climate, culture, economics, geography, and tradition, just
to name a few.
Perhaps this would be better illustrated by the following news article:
http://temagami.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/30012004/n7.shtml
In response to this problem, I became a founding member of a food-buying
club - orders for which consisted exclusively of fruits and vegetables - in
Downtown Ottawa:
http://www.centretownchc.org/good_food_box_packer.htm
Post by Tracyits good
that there are people out there willing
to make us aware.
The education system, the government and the media already do their part to
make us aware.
In the end, it is still a personal choice as to what one wants to do with
the information which is presented to them.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEPost by TracyDont forget the issue of antibiotics
and dyes that are used to *plump*
up the meat.
Oh, I agree with what you're saying;
after all, I've been aware of all
this since at least the mid-70s.
That's ok then!! :)))
I've been aware of additives, dyes and preservatives since I could read
ingredients on labels, but it was Miss CHRISTIE in Grade 7 (1973 to 1974)
who introduced me to the types of issues one would find in Mother Earth News
(as well as the magazine itself, of course):
http://www.motherearthnews.com/
As progressive as she was, Miss CHRISTIE was not a vegetarian.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEI grew up on a family farm, and to my
knowledge, we didn't subject our
livestock to those practices.
We are talking mass-production -
cutting corners and speeding up the
process with the maltreatment of
animals and use of chemicals etc.
In the same setting, plants (and by extension, the soil, etc.) are not
treated any better.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIESurely you could tell that I was being
facetious, Tracy?
oh, I dont know - implying that cos she
is vegetarian, she is a nut!!
Kryten referred to his vegetarian room-mate as "a grumpy vegetarian drama
queen".
Nowhere did I explicitly or implicitly state that she was a "nut" just
because she was vegetarian.
I don't know how you managed to derive that from what I wrote, frankly.
If I'd thought for a moment that vegetarians were "nut(s)", then I wouldn't
have been the one who respected the diet of the one vegan in the food-buying
club, by proposing to take everyone to a vegetarian restaurant with our
surplus.
Additionally, when I originally moved Downtown in 1994, a vegetarian
restaurant called The Supernatural Cafe opened up a few blocks away from
where I was living.
Not only was I a regular patron, I encouraged friends and associates to dine
there with me, in support of the business.
When the South Asian woman who owned the restaurant confided in me early on
that she
was having difficulty breaking even, and that she might even have to close
down operations, I decided to do some research.
In those days, research meant combing through books and contacting
organisations for information, which was much more time-consuming than it is
now, what with the Internet.
From this research, I provided the restaurateur with some suggestions which
kept The Supernatural Cafe afloat for another few years, before she finally
moved to Winnipeg in 1997.
I neither asked for nor received any form of recompense; I was simply happy
to help.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEBut yeah, facetious is a good word :)))
Anytime I use ' ... ' or '?!', it usually means I'm being facetious
(especially if I'm making a generalisation, as I did).
Otherwise, when I use a '?', I'm asking an actual question.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEPost by TracyOh dear! We dont anything about
the vegetarian/vegan diet then, do
we??
Expecting others to change is not only inappropriate in any relationship,
but it inevitably
leads to disappointment.
Naturally, there will be resistance, as it is insulting not to accept people
as they already are.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEPost by TracyI can feel another tut coming on!!
What, no Cleopatra?!
Some people swim in that big Egyptian river - in de nile!
Carnivores aren't the only ones who are capable or culpable of that,
apparently.
The production and consumption of meat in and of itself is not inherently
evil, elsewise
sources of organic / sustainable meat wouldn't have been listed in the
resources section:
http://www.themeatrix.com/action/action.html
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEFair warning, but do they go around
preaching to others that they should
become carnivores (and lushes)?
No, but those sorts of people take the piss out of *weirdo's* like
vegetarians and vegans!!!!!!!
"Those sorts of people" are the exception, not the rule.
Post by TracyOf course, I am not implying you are a
kebab-guzzling, lager-swilling lout,
darlink
It matters not.
How people conduct themselves is more important than what people consume.
Post by Tracy- just its a tad bit unfair taking the piss
My original statement was as follows:
"What I liked about it is that, finally, we have a story about factory farms
that doesn't have a hidden agenda, in which veganism is promoted as being
the only solution.
"(These are people whom I call veganazis.)"
To put this into proper context, I was specifically referring to those who
have a hidden agenda with respect to the issue of factory farms.
Nowhere is there a reference to your name, or is there any direct or
indirect reference to you, personally.
During the four years that we exchanged e-mails and posts, you never once
mentioned that you were a vegetarian.
As to my other statement, "Most people seem to forget that HITLER and
MUSSOLINI were both *vegetarians*":
I was challenging a generalisation, as opposed to making a generalisation;
the generalisation in question being that a change in diet will change one's
essential personality.
Post by Tracyout of people who take care of what
they eat and wish to let the world know
about how dangerous factory-farming
is to our physical bodies and ethics in
general.
Anything worthwhile doing is never easy; that's what conviction is all
about.
I've been a recycler since 1974, before the municipal infrastructure even
existed here.
When I learned of a depot for recycling paper products, I took on the task
of bundling together all the paper in our household for reprocessing.
Although we lived 40 km outside Ottawa, I ensured that we stopped by the
depot everytime we had any business in town, which was usually once a week
in those days.
In my old apartment building, a nude dead woman's body was found in our
recycling dumpster by the City recycling contractor.
The following year this very same dumpster was arsoned.
And due to the cavernous nature of the area where the recycling bins were
stored, vagrants alternately used it as a drug den or a toilet.
Although I ceased recycling articles in that building (for reasons which
should be perfectly understandable, given the circumstances), I made
arrangements to bring my recyclables to another building nearby.
Sure, most people would consider it to be all a big hassle, but at least my
conscience was clear.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEHonestly, I hadn't even remotely
thought that when I typed that.
I know - but you were stereotyping in
an awfully chauvanistic way, as far as
I could make out!!!
Nothing sexist (or sexual) was even intended; as I had previously mentioned,
my reply was based on Kryten's comment about the "hyper acute hearing and
smell" possessed by his room-mate.
It reminded me of the medical condition of the people in the documentary I
had seen earlier.
It was just easier to compare her abilities - i.e., "hyper acute hearing and
smell" - to that of a dog (commonly understood).
I then phrased this in alliteration for effect:
" *S*ound*s* like *sh*e *sh*ould be on a lea*sh* ... "
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEI based my reply on Kryten's
comment about his room-mate's
"hyper acute hearing and smell".
Yeah, she has a good homeostatic
system, no doubt - so her mucus
membranes are clear and keen.
The people in the documentary to which I referred were not vegetarian.
A neurological disorder was the explanation for their abilities.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEOriginally, I was going to remark
something to the effect that autistics
(and some epileptics?) have this
ability, according to a documentary I
viewed a few years ago.
And what has that got to do with
anything, huh, huh??
Everything.
See above.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEI then attempted to do some on-line
research to support this statement,
but I wasn't having any luck.
Shame!
Yes, it is a shame, because then it would've provided the opportunity to
learn more about this rare medical condition:
http://www.autism.org/temple/faq.html
http://www.autism.org/temple/visual.html
A family member was struck with a similar medical condition.
Her ultrasensitivity to sounds would set off seizures, leaving her with
stroke-like symptoms
lasting days and even weeks.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEMy apologies to the female members
of my audience who found my
reference (quite unintentionally)
offensive.
Correct response!!
The foregoing background should demonstrate that the intent behind my reply
was not sexist (or sexual).
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEPost by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEMost people seem to forget that
HITLER and MUSSOLINI were
both *vegetarians*.
Yeah, and so was Mahatma
Gandhi!!!
My point was, some vegetarians tend
to make themselves out to be morally
superior to everyone else simply
based on their dietary choice.
Yeah!! Cocky little shites!! :P
Good to know that we can still agree on something ...
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEMeanwhile, those of us who have had
to live with dietary restrictions due
to medical reasons are just glad to
eat anything at all.
Hey, you could be a Somalian with
*nothing* to eat at all!!!
Were I to start comparing one person's ordeal to that of another when
counselling victims of crime, an occupation I have done over the years, then
I wouldn't be very sensitive or supportive.
To even get into comparing one person's suffering against another is like
comparing apples and oranges, as each person feels its effects differently.
One has to consider the impact of the situation on the individual, as much
as the situation itself.
If it takes a catastrophe before one qualifies for compassion, then that
kind of compassion is clearly cause-driven, and hence, questionable.
Post by Tracy"The greatness of a nation and its
moral progress can be measured by
the way in which its animals are
treated."
-- Mahatma Gandhi.
Nowhere in this statement does Mohandas K. GANDHI proscribe the consumption
of meat.
Jewish kosher laws have prescribed the humane treatment of animals for
thousands of years, and Muslim halal laws for over a thousand, but don't
advise against the consumption of meat.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEAt the same time, I'm sure there's a
lot of carnivores who are no less
enlightened than the famous people
on that list.
If they were enlightened, factory
farming would have stopped years
ago.
That's an old, spurious argument, used by advocates of vegetarianism for
years.
The raison d'etre for factory farms is based on economics - i.e., 'cheap
food'.
Factory farms produce other foods, such as vegetables.
Aside from that, factory farms aren't the sole suppliers of all meat to the
marketplace.
Finally, carnivores consume meat produced on family farms about as much as
that on
factory farms.
Post by TracyWe know whats harmful to us and to
the animals ready for slaughter, but we
dont really do anything about it. We
like our meat too much!
That comment is based the assumption that all farm animals are treated in
same manner as on factory farms.
Post by TracyPost by Glen A. RITCHIEI have enjoyed vegetarian cuisine at
a number of restaurants in town, and
people have often confused me for a
vegetarian because I'm always eating
a lot of vegetables.
We are supposed to eat more fruit and
veg than meat, anyway!!
Individual nutritional requirements vary.
That's why applying the same diet to everyone seldom works.
Aboriginal people here now have a very high incidence of diabetes, which is
a result of radical changes to their once high-protein diet (no thanks to
outside interference).
--
Please remember to visit
http://www.thehungersite.org
to make your free daily donation
of food to the needy.
This programme is paid for by
clicking on the advertisers listed,
with the food being delivered
by a highly reputable agency,
the United Nations.