new to group/watched #4 last night

[Mr Baginoz]

Hello,

Just found this group....

As it happens, watched "resurrection" last night (too hot to sleep
here)

1. I enjoyed far, far more than when I watched it when it first came
out. I watched it as "a movie" rather than part of the series

2. I guess this has been talked to death on this NG - but -

- what would have happened when the research ship ship (which looked c.
a mile long) hit the earth at xxxxx miles per hour - megadeath surely

- how come it only took 3.5 hours to get from the "exclusion/lawless
zone" (or whatever it was called) back to earth.? If a new super drive
had been invented - what need for cold sleep?

[w***@yahoo.com]

Post by Mr Baginoz
2. I guess this has been talked to death on this NG - but -
- what would have happened when the research ship ship (which looked c.
a mile long) hit the earth at xxxxx miles per hour - megadeath surely

hello, indeed, I have no idea what happned, but maybe you sure are
right

Post by Mr Baginoz
- how come it only took 3.5 hours to get from the "exclusion/lawless
zone" (or whatever it was called) back to earth.? If a new super drive
had been invented - what need for cold sleep?

well, I suppose it was not so far away from Earth that cryosleep wasn't
neccessary. I think it was near to Pluto. That isn't really so far
away, maybe

[Mr Baginoz]

Post by w***@yahoo.com

Post by Mr Baginoz
- how come it only took 3.5 hours to get from the "exclusion/lawless
zone" (or whatever it was called) back to earth.? If a new super drive
had been invented - what need for cold sleep?

well, I suppose it was not so far away from Earth that cryosleep wasn't
neccessary. I think it was near to Pluto. That isn't really so far
away, maybe

I was getting this from in the movie - the W Ryder char said "so thats
why are you out here in the neutral zone" to a scientist (or simular
description of a place out side legal treaties etc) - this would infer
it was at the edge of the human "empire" .

I was then guessing that this is a plot hole - space travel in the
"aliens" universe takes several months between stars- hence the need
for cryosleep... but in the 200 years since Alien 3 if they are
suggesting a new FTL drive has been invented (i.e the 3 hours to get
back to earth) - why the need for cryosleep - and if this is the case,
where did the crew of the Betty get the 12 test victims from?

Actually, even going from pluto to earth in three hours is a fair chunk
of light speed.. can anybody do the calcs?

[Doctor J. Frink]

Post by Mr Baginoz
Actually, even going from pluto to earth in three hours is a fair chunk
of light speed.. can anybody do the calcs?

Earth-Pluto is roughly 5.75*10^12m. 3hours=10800s.

so v=5.32x10^8m/s , or 1.77c. And that's assuming constant velocity,
obviously they will need to accelerate and decelerate and unless they've
got anti-inertial measures there's only so much of that they can do.

Pluto's orbit is quite eccentric so it could be a lot closer than that
but even so it's still going to be over c.

So either they have FTL or someone cocked up.

Frink

[w***@yahoo.com]

Post by Doctor J. Frink
So either they have FTL or someone cocked up.
Frink

I suppose the Nostromo would have travelling faster than light anyway
in it's voyage, so for me the idea of the Auriga travelling faster than
light doesn't bother me

[Mr Baginoz]

Post by w***@yahoo.com
I suppose the Nostromo would have travelling faster than light anyway
in it's voyage, so for me the idea of the Auriga travelling faster than
light doesn't bother me

But this is where the aliens universe falls apart with "Ressurection" -
there is no need for cold sleep - or all the malarky about "drifting
for 60 years" etc

[Adam Cameron]

Post by Mr Baginoz
But this is where the aliens universe falls apart with "Ressurection" -
there is no need for cold sleep - or all the malarky about "drifting
for 60 years" etc

Well, no, it doesn't. The Auriga was within the solar system. The events
in Alien(s) occurred a few dozen lightyears away from Earth.

[Mr Baginoz]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Mr Baginoz
But this is where the aliens universe falls apart with "Ressurection" -
there is no need for cold sleep - or all the malarky about "drifting
for 60 years" etc

Well, no, it doesn't. The Auriga was within the solar system. The events
in Alien(s) occurred a few dozen lightyears away from Earth.
--
Adam

Well, I don't think it adds up - either they have FTL travel or they
don't. As posted, to get from pluto - ish to earth in three hours
requires FTL.

Yet, If the events in alien(s) was only "a few dozen light years from
earth" why the need for coldsleep? - and (again) if they have FTL
travel what about the time issue -?

At one point during aliens a character asks "how long before we are
reported missing can we accept a rescue mission?"

If they used FTL to get to the "aliens" planet, reletivity would
suggest several years would alraedy passed Earth - and any rescue would
take several years to arive from the perspective of the remaining
marines and ripley....

The bottom line - the 3 hours for the Auriga to impact Earth was a plot
device, nowt more

That does not (as I orignally posted) demean Alien 4 - I now think it
is a far better movie than I first thought

PS
I still cannot bring myself to watch AVP again tho'

[Adam Cameron]

Let's just consider the distance to start with.

Say the Auriga was at the heliopause, it was 76AU (from the sun, so 75-77AU
from Earth) away. 76AU is 0.00120177727LY (according to google). The
events of Alien(s) took place about 40LY away, which is 33000x more than
that.

So if the Nostromo was travelling as fast as the Auriga was, it would still
take it about 100000hrs to get back from where it was. And it was only
around half way between its starting point and Earth. So that would be 11
YEARS away from Earth, halfway through a 22yr mission. If it was going 10x
as fast, it's still a year away from home. So... yeah... I'd be wanting to
be in hypersleep for that.

(note: I know they said they were only months away from home in Alien, and
weeks away in Aliens... either would still suggest hypersleep would be
desirable).


However, as you touch on, they almost certainly weren't using a travelling
mechanism that would be "FTL" in our understanding of the concept, due to
the time dilation that's supposed to happen when travelling FTL.


My presumptions are these:
1) it's a movie, so they were travelling via special magic, and it needs no
more qualification than that, as it's not important. That said the
differences in magical travel duration and the requirement for hypersleep
when travelling longer distances is not internally inconsistant.

2) they're using some form of moving around that is not linear across the
three (four, I guess) dimensions we generally measure distances, and
according getting from point A to point B in time T does not necessarily
mean one was travelling at a velocity of (B-A)/T.

Either is fine by me, but I err towards the former.

[Mr Baginoz]

Adam

Points well made, the only "willing suspension of disbelief" I really
need was that when the marines/ripley were trapped by the critters in
Aliens, there was no rescue round the corner.

By the way, (and I have not seen a response to this yet) what would
happened when the research ship from Alien resurrection hit earth?

Given its size/weight if it was travelling at even 25% of C it would
have made a biiiiiiiig pop

[Tracy]

Post by Mr Baginoz
Adam
Points well made, the only "willing suspension of disbelief" I really
need was that when the marines/ripley were trapped by the critters in
Aliens, there was no rescue round the corner.
By the way, (and I have not seen a response to this yet) what would
happened when the research ship from Alien resurrection hit earth?
Given its size/weight if it was travelling at even 25% of C it would
have made a biiiiiiiig pop

Basically no thought went into A4, other than the desire to produce a
gore-fest, silly monster (hybrid), sci-fi movie - if they didnt
consider the fans or the story line, why bother with the real technical
stuff like FLT or accelerating towards the earth at a ridiculous speed?

[Covenant]

Post by Mr Baginoz
- what would have happened when the research ship ship (which looked c.
a mile long) hit the earth at xxxxx miles per hour - megadeath surely

Now...

Didn't our resient physicist calculate this one???

[j***@my-deja.com]

Post by Covenant

Post by Mr Baginoz
- what would have happened when the research ship ship (which looked c.
a mile long) hit the earth at xxxxx miles per hour - megadeath surely

Now...
Didn't our resient physicist calculate this one???

You may be recalling this thread I started, 18 months or so back:-
http://tinyurl.com/kgjce

The conclusion was that it depends bigtime what assumptions you make
about the mass of the ship. If it hits at a high angle at a large
fraction of C and is comparable in composition to an oil tanker, then
yes, Earth is toast.

[Robert]

Post by Mr Baginoz
- what would have happened when the research ship ship (which looked c.
a mile long) hit the earth at xxxxx miles per hour - megadeath surely

*ding!*

"Thank you for using the Weyland-Yutani Supplemental Restraint System.
All of our operators are currently busy, however, someone will be with
you shortly. To expedite your rescue, please use the following menu.

If you've plowed into an asteroid or other body at sub-light speed,
please press 1.
If your vessel is currently infested with xenomorphs, please press 2.
If you feel your dramatic situation has been hijacked by a hack
director, please press 3.

To repeat this menu in Arcturan, please press 4."





.

[Tracy]

Post by Robert

Post by Mr Baginoz
- what would have happened when the research ship ship (which looked c.
a mile long) hit the earth at xxxxx miles per hour - megadeath surely

*ding!*
"Thank you for using the Weyland-Yutani Supplemental Restraint System.
All of our operators are currently busy, however, someone will be with
you shortly. To expedite your rescue, please use the following menu.
If you've plowed into an asteroid or other body at sub-light speed,
please press 1.
If your vessel is currently infested with xenomorphs, please press 2.
If you feel your dramatic situation has been hijacked by a hack
director, please press 3.
To repeat this menu in Arcturan, please press 4."

Lookie here! I've pressed 4 and nothing's bloody happening, man!!!