Alien "Plot Problem"?

[ADWatts]

Posted by Matt Beckwith at rec.arts.movies.current-films:

"If you go back to the first Alien, there's a plot problem which AVP
nicely solves. In the ship they found on the planet, there's a whole
section which is designed just for the purpose of preserving the
aliens' eggs. Yet the ship itself was not built by those aliens, but
by different aliens. Remember the navigator whose chest had been blown
open from inside? So presumably that ship was built by the predators,
and carried alien eggs--one of which got out."

Now you see, this is one reason I ****HATE**** AvP. Now we
have supposed "plot-holes" in Alien <snicker> being explained away
by the presence of Predators.

Sickening.

Anyone else have thoughts on the above quote. Agreeing or disagreeing,
or wanting to puke like me?

If this is the direction that the *Alien* universe is headed, count me out.
And if morons like that start showing up here . . .

<deep breath> It's only a movie, it's only a movie . . .

Sorry, but that post really "bugged" me. :-)

Ahmed

[David A McIntee]

Post by ADWatts
Anyone else have thoughts on the above quote. Agreeing or disagreeing,
or wanting to puke like me?

Agreeing with you, disagreeing with the quoted post...


--
--
"I'd like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that
could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS. " [Colonel Jack
O'Neill]

Redemption 05, February 25-27 2005 http://www.smof.com/redemption

Currently reading: At The Mountains Of Madness[HP Lovecraft]

http://www.livejournal.com/~lonemagpie

[Adam Cameron]

Post by ADWatts
by different aliens. Remember the navigator whose chest had been blown
open from inside? So presumably that ship was built by the predators,
and carried alien eggs--one of which got out."

The former does not necessarily imply the latter.

If you were to find a Japanese car filled with kittens doesn't mean the
only people who transport kittens are Japanese, and they always use cars to
do it.

Post by ADWatts
Now you see, this is one reason I ****HATE**** AvP. Now we

AvP is a sequel to Predator, and it just so happens that in the Predator
"universe" there are aliens (and, I guess, Whassisname Weyland). It's got
nothing to do with Alien, in my book.

And I never understand this notion that one movie can some how diminish
another movie.

[Rich]

Post by Adam Cameron
And I never understand this notion that one movie can some how diminish
another movie.

You're an "Alien" fan and believe this?

See, there was this great movie called Aliens, and then Alien 3 came out..

;)

Seriously, I actually like all the Alien movies, Predator movies, and even
thought AvP was decent (albeit wasn't nearly gory enough for a Predator
flick). Hollywood releases so little decent creature sci-fi, I guess I'm a
little like the proverbial man wandering in the desert.

My only hang up with the entire series is killing off Ripley and her cohorts
from Aliens. That was just unnecessary.

[Adam Cameron]

Post by Rich
You're an "Alien" fan and believe this?
See, there was this great movie called Aliens, and then Alien 3 came out..

I prefer Alien3 to Aliens...

[Rich]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Rich
You're an "Alien" fan and believe this?
See, there was this great movie called Aliens, and then Alien 3 came out..

I prefer Alien3 to Aliens...

The best part of Alien 3 was in the trailer, with the Alien's head about two
inches from Ripley's, and then the hibiscus(?) pops out... unfortunately,
for that great scene to work in the actual movie, its requirement was a bit
harsh.

I did like the third movie as well, but they could have improved upon it. I
liked the actor who played the doctor, but the rest of the cast were
caricatures of British criminals, headed up by the kindhearted American.

As an Alien movie, Aliens did suck. However, it was a fantastic war flick,
and easily one of my favorite "rollercoaster" movies, and my pick of the
whole series. I just wish the Quadrilogy disc wasn't so compressed, the
artifacting is terrible.

[Adam Cameron]

Post by Rich
As an Alien movie, Aliens did suck. However, it was a fantastic war flick,
and easily one of my favorite "rollercoaster" movies, and my pick of the
whole series. I just wish the Quadrilogy disc wasn't so compressed, the
artifacting is terrible.

Agreed. It remains an excellent (one of the best?) American action movie,
and taken in those terms it's the best of the series.

In the context of Alien films, it's OK, but kinda misses the point, in my
view.

[Hidden Beadwork]

Post by Rich
The best part of Alien 3 was in the trailer, with the Alien's head about two
inches from Ripley's, and then the hibiscus(?) pops out

Proboscis?

Ridley Scott simply called it the alien's tongue.

(I just think of it as a second set of jaws. No fancy terms.)

[Sandman]

Post by Rich

Post by Adam Cameron
And I never understand this notion that one movie can some how diminish
another movie.

You're an "Alien" fan and believe this?
See, there was this great movie called Aliens, and then Alien 3 came out..

My copy of Alien and Aliens stayed the same, though.

[ADWatts]

Post by Adam Cameron
AvP is a sequel to Predator, and it just so happens that in the Predator
"universe" there are aliens (and, I guess, Whassisname Weyland). It's got
nothing to do with Alien, in my book.

Nor mine.

Post by Adam Cameron
And I never understand this notion that one movie can some how diminish
another movie.

It can't.

But it still irks me!

Have a great day!

Ahmed

[Sandman]

Post by ADWatts
"If you go back to the first Alien, there's a plot problem which AVP
nicely solves. In the ship they found on the planet, there's a whole
section which is designed just for the purpose of preserving the
aliens' eggs. Yet the ship itself was not built by those aliens, but
by different aliens. Remember the navigator whose chest had been blown
open from inside? So presumably that ship was built by the predators,
and carried alien eggs--one of which got out."
Now you see, this is one reason I ****HATE**** AvP. Now we
have supposed "plot-holes" in Alien <snicker> being explained away
by the presence of Predators.

Eh? The fact that we don't know who SJ is is in fact a plot hole. A plot hole
doesn't necessarily means that something is incorrect, only that there is
missing information.

Either way - even if you don't want to call it a plot hole - the above
constitutes one theory to the "Who is the SJ" and "What is the eggs doing
there" questions. Nothing to hate about it at all - unless you're having some
form of irrational hatred towards a specific subject and everything concerning
it.

Post by ADWatts
Sickening.
Anyone else have thoughts on the above quote. Agreeing or disagreeing,
or wanting to puke like me?

I'm a little to rational to go around describing the emotions I get from
reading a plot theory as "puking". Furthermore, there is nothing to agree or
disagree with really. Matt obviously felt that AvP tied together with Alien in
that it presented a plausible explanation to the origins of the eggs in the
derelict. Nothing to get "sick" about at all.

Post by ADWatts
If this is the direction that the *Alien* universe is headed, count me out.

Eh? The Alien universe went down the drain with A3, and you're only now
starting to notice?

Post by ADWatts
And if morons like that start showing up here . . .
<deep breath> It's only a movie, it's only a movie . . .
Sorry, but that post really "bugged" me. :-)

Sounds irrational to me.

[Robert]

Post by Sandman
Eh? The fact that we don't know who SJ is is in fact a plot hole. A plot hole
doesn't necessarily means that something is incorrect, only that there is
missing information.

Personally I prefer to think of a 'plot hole' as something that
causes a problem, but
that's neither here nor there. ;)

Post by Sandman
Either way - even if you don't want to call it a plot hole - the above
constitutes one theory to the "Who is the SJ" and "What is the eggs doing
there" questions. Nothing to hate about it at all - unless you're having some
form of irrational hatred towards a specific subject and everything concerning
it.

The idea violates canon (if directory's comments are canon) AND it
just replaces
one plot hole with another: SJ's not a Predator, so who's this 3rd species?
Space Truckers?
"Yah, got this ship-load of toys for one Mr. Predator, sign here, please."

Space Jockey and the ship are just a plot device; as to who/what
they are, Ridley says
it's a military ship and the cargo is weapons. Makes sense, jives with what
I personally always
suspected, and the Man said it, so....;) If somebody feels a need to plug
_that_ into the Predator
universe, I dunno....Predator's enemies, perhaps?

[John Redman]

Post by Robert
The idea violates canon (if directory's comments are canon) AND it
just replaces
one plot hole with another: SJ's not a Predator, so who's this 3rd species?

If one accepts Ridley's idea that the alien is a genetically engineered
bioweapon, the SJ may equally be a genetically engineered pilot for the
derelict. There is no reason to suppose that he or his cargo necessarily
look much like their creators, nor that there is a race of SJs.

There is equally no reason to suppose that the Preds are into this sort of
engineering. They may find aliens thrilling to hunt, but that doesn't mean
they are a Pred creation. The trophy cabinet in Pred 2 suggests to me that
their idea of fun is hunting the most dangerous opponents they can find, of
which the aliens are just one. If they had made all these species from whole
cloth, they'd presumably have come up with the ultimate quarry by now.

I haven't seen AvP, but if any part of the premise is that the Preds go
looking for aliens to hunt, that too strongly suggests they are *not* a Pred
creation. If they were, the Preds wouldn't need to seek aliens out. They
could just order some off the Pred equivalent of eBay and have them
delivered to a suitably challenging locale.

[Robert]

Post by John Redman

Post by Robert
The idea violates canon (if directory's comments are canon) AND it
just replaces
one plot hole with another: SJ's not a Predator, so who's this 3rd species?

If one accepts Ridley's idea that the alien is a genetically engineered
bioweapon, the SJ may equally be a genetically engineered pilot for the
derelict. There is no reason to suppose that he or his cargo necessarily
look much like their creators, nor that there is a race of SJs.

I missed the 'engineered' quote, but supposing it's true, there's
no reason to suppose
SJ _isn't_ the race that invented them, or at least uses them. Why presume
otherwise? Ridley
could have easily said that the whole thing (derelict+pilot+cargo) was a
bio-engineered _system_; he didn't. He
said the _aliens_ were being _used_ as weapons, and the derelict was a
military craft.

Post by John Redman
There is equally no reason to suppose that the Preds are into this sort of
engineering. They may find aliens thrilling to hunt, but that doesn't mean
they are a Pred creation. The trophy cabinet in Pred 2 suggests to me that
their idea of fun is hunting the most dangerous opponents they can find,
of which the aliens are just one.

That's made really clear in Predator, insofar as dangerous 'game'
goes. I take
it you haven't seen it? The Preds are either culturally sportsmen or have a
substantial
sub-class of hunters who regularly engage in safaris. (To me, Pred 2
suggests it's integral
to their entire culture.) The Pred in the first movie ignores the lone
female cast member
because she's unarmed, engages the most dangerous targets he can find,
prefers to go
mano a mano with the lone survivor of a dangerous group, etc. It's all in
there. ;)

[John Redman]

Post by Robert
I missed the 'engineered' quote, but supposing it's true, there's
no reason to suppose
SJ _isn't_ the race that invented them, or at least uses them. Why presume
otherwise?

No reason to. My point was in response to someone's remark in another NG
that the Preds built the derelict. This claim is not supported by anything
in either film. It's possible, but based on what we see of the Preds in P1
and P2, it doesn't seem likely to me.

Post by Robert
Ridley
could have easily said that the whole thing (derelict+pilot+cargo) was a
bio-engineered _system_; he didn't. He
said the _aliens_ were being _used_ as weapons, and the derelict was a
military craft.

He speculated that that might be the case but none of that makes it into the
movie. Ripley suggests the Company's interest might stem from the creature's
possibilities as a weapon, but this is just her speculation. It might be
why, or it might not, and either way it doesn't prove the alien was
engineered from whole cloth.

If the aliens *are* a manufactured life form, the backstory possibilities
are, I reckon:-

- the SJs engineered them
- something else engineered the aliens as perfect weapons, and the SJs as
perfect pilots for a ship full of them

Add in the provenance of the ship, if you like, for a further axis on the
graph. The ship looks like it grew rather than having been built...

Post by Robert

Post by John Redman
There is equally no reason to suppose that the Preds are into this sort
of engineering. They may find aliens thrilling to hunt, but that doesn't
mean they are a Pred creation. The trophy cabinet in Pred 2 suggests to
me that their idea of fun is hunting the most dangerous opponents they
can find, of which the aliens are just one.

That's made really clear in Predator, insofar as dangerous 'game'
goes. I take
it you haven't seen it?

Seen P1 and P2 many times, haven't yet seen AvP...just couldn't be bothered.

Post by Robert
The Preds are either culturally sportsmen or have a substantial
sub-class of hunters who regularly engage in safaris. (To me, Pred 2
suggests it's integral
to their entire culture.) The Pred in the first movie ignores the lone
female cast member
because she's unarmed, engages the most dangerous targets he can find,
prefers to go
mano a mano with the lone survivor of a dangerous group, etc. It's all in
there. ;)

Indeed it is, and IMHO it all works against the plausibility of the Preds
having engineered the aliens. Why would they bother with Arnie when they can
engineer any suitably challenging quarry they like? Makes no sense. Also
there's a time issue - the dead SJ in A1 'looks like he's been dead a long
time'. If he's been dead for 50,000 years, and 50,000 years ago the Preds
were engineering aliens, how likely is it that they're still running around
hunting them and humans in the present? 50,000 years is a long time for a
species' idea of fun to remain unaltered.

[Robert]

Why would they bother with Arnie when they can engineer any suitably
challenging quarry they like? Makes no sense. Also there's a time issue -
the dead SJ in A1 'looks like he's been dead a long time'. If he's been
dead for 50,000 years, and 50,000 years ago the Preds were engineering
aliens, how likely is it that they're still running around hunting them
and humans in the present? 50,000 years is a long time for a species' idea
of fun to remain unaltered.

Excellent point.

[Hidden Beadwork]

Post by Robert
The Pred in the first movie ignores the lone
female cast member
because she's unarmed, engages the most dangerous targets he can find,
prefers to go
mano a mano with the lone survivor of a dangerous group, etc. It's all in
there. ;)

Some useless info... I think "mano y mano" means "hand and hand" (as in
*unarmed* combat, "hand-to-hand" in English).

"Mano" is 'hand', not 'man'. (I think this is called a "false cognate.")

The Predators rarely (if ever) went "mano y mano" in the movies. And not just
because the Predator isn't strictly a man. :) They used weapons.

[David A McIntee]

Post by John Redman
I haven't seen AvP, but if any part of the premise is that the Preds go
looking for aliens to hunt, that too strongly suggests they are *not* a Pred
creation. If they were, the Preds wouldn't need to seek aliens out.

AVP continuity in the comics has it that they breed Aliens from captive
Queens, but there's no suggestion they created the beasts. For the AVP
movie, Anderson has said that the Predators may have genetically modified
the Aliens to mature faster, but again that's not a suggestion that they
created them - just that they farm them to seed onto suitable locales for a
party.


--
--
"I'd like to apologize in advance for anything that I may say or do that
could be construed as offensive as I slowly go NUTS. " [Colonel Jack
O'Neill]

Redemption 05, February 25-27 2005 http://www.smof.com/redemption

Currently reading: At The Mountains Of Madness[HP Lovecraft]

http://www.livejournal.com/~lonemagpie

[Sandman]

Post by John Redman
I haven't seen AvP, but if any part of the premise is that the Preds go
looking for aliens to hunt, that too strongly suggests they are *not* a Pred
creation. If they were, the Preds wouldn't need to seek aliens out. They
could just order some off the Pred equivalent of eBay and have them
delivered to a suitably challenging locale.

Spoilers ahead

.
.
.


AvP has one of those stupid scenes where one of the character looks at some
ancient hieroglyfs in this temple and magically understands and explains the
entire plot; Predators plant Alien eggs with different species. The resulting
aliens is used as an initiation process for young predators in some form of
manhood test. As it is, the ultimate Alien is bred from humans.

Wayland and Co finds and enters this ancient pyramid just as it is being
'activated' (which is why they found it in the first place). And then the
predators arrive.

[Adam Cameron]

Post by Sandman
manhood test. As it is, the ultimate Alien is bred from humans.

Again, this assumes that the *only* usage for aliens is for predator sport.
There's nothing to support this.

Post by Sandman
Wayland and Co finds and enters this ancient pyramid just as it is being
'activated' (which is why they found it in the first place). And then the
predators arrive.

I see no point here. What do you mean?

[Sandman]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Sandman
manhood test. As it is, the ultimate Alien is bred from humans.

Again, this assumes that the *only* usage for aliens is for predator sport.

...in this manhood test. That's all it suggests. Alien might be domesticated
pets for Predators, but when born from humans (and other species) they become
killer machines. Who knows?

Post by Adam Cameron
There's nothing to support this.

There is nothing that support your assumption either.

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Sandman
Wayland and Co finds and enters this ancient pyramid just as it is being
'activated' (which is why they found it in the first place). And then the
predators arrive.

I see no point here. What do you mean?

There wasn't any point. The Predators "activate" the pyramid for the manhood
test, which is embedded hundreds of feet below the ice in antartica. Wayland
Yutani sees this in satellite scans (i.e. heat emerging from the ice or
something). They go there and arrive mere hours before the Predators do, just
in time for some to be impregnated by alien eggs in a sacrificial chamber.

[Robert]

Post by Sandman
There wasn't any point. The Predators "activate" the pyramid for the manhood
test, which is embedded hundreds of feet below the ice in antartica.

Whoa, hold on. I didn't see this movie, but I've seen the first two.
It's canon from 1 and 2
that the Preds do not like cold weather - in fact, they only come to earth
to hunt during the extremest
of the extreme of a heat wave, and even _then_ need to wear protective
suits. How/why would/could they
build something in Antartica?

[Covenant]

Post by Robert
Whoa, hold on. I didn't see this movie, but I've seen the first two.
It's canon from 1 and 2
that the Preds do not like cold weather - in fact, they only come to earth
to hunt during the extremest
of the extreme of a heat wave, and even _then_ need to wear protective
suits. How/why would/could they
build something in Antartica?

;' )

Amazing the things they think we won't notice, huh?

(Unless it's *like the goddam tropics* inside the pyramid.)

;' )


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[Sandman]

Post by Covenant

Post by Robert
It's canon from 1 and 2
that the Preds do not like cold weather - in fact, they only come to earth
to hunt during the extremest
of the extreme of a heat wave, and even _then_ need to wear protective
suits. How/why would/could they
build something in Antartica?

Amazing the things they think we won't notice, huh?

Yeah, it's a conspiracy, for sure.

Post by Covenant
(Unless it's *like the goddam tropics* inside the pyramid.)

Irrelevant, the final fight takes place on the snow, as does the first.

[Sandman]

Post by Robert

Post by Sandman
There wasn't any point. The Predators "activate" the pyramid for the
manhood test, which is embedded hundreds of feet below the ice in
antartica.

Whoa, hold on. I didn't see this movie, but I've seen the first two.
It's canon from 1 and 2 that the Preds do not like cold weather - in
fact, they only come to earth to hunt during the extremest of the
extreme of a heat wave, and even _then_ need to wear protective suits.
How/why would/could they build something in Antartica?

I suppose they wouldn't. But hey, inconsistencies hasn't stopped people before.
:)

[Rich]

Post by John Redman
I haven't seen AvP, but if any part of the premise is that the Preds go
looking for aliens to hunt, that too strongly suggests they are *not* a
Pred creation. If they were, the Preds wouldn't need to seek aliens out.
They could just order some off the Pred equivalent of eBay and have them
delivered to a suitably challenging locale.

Funniest thing I've read all day. "My son is going hunting this weekend, I
don't have time to wait 4 more days for auction's end! No 'Buy it Now'
button, either! Damn it!"

[Sandman]

Post by Sandman
Eh? The fact that we don't know who SJ is is in fact a plot hole. A
plot hole doesn't necessarily means that something is incorrect, only
that there is missing information.

Personally I prefer to think of a 'plot hole' as something that causes
a problem, but that's neither here nor there. ;)

Well, to be frank - the mystery surrounding the SJ sure has caused problems for
many :)

Post by Sandman
Either way - even if you don't want to call it a plot hole - the
above constitutes one theory to the "Who is the SJ" and "What is the
eggs doing there" questions. Nothing to hate about it at all - unless
you're having some form of irrational hatred towards a specific
subject and everything concerning it.

The idea violates canon (if directory's comments are canon) AND it
just replaces one plot hole with another: SJ's not a Predator, so
who's this 3rd species? Space Truckers? "Yah, got this ship-load of
toys for one Mr. Predator, sign here, please."

I interpreted it as the predator having planted the eggs on the SJ ship just as
they planted the eggs for the humans in the pyramid. The SJ is just another
race that the predator uses for Alien incubations.

Space Jockey and the ship are just a plot device; as to who/what they
are, Ridley says it's a military ship and the cargo is weapons. Makes
sense, jives with what I personally always suspected, and the Man said
it, so....;) If somebody feels a need to plug that_ into the Predator
universe, I dunno....Predator's enemies, perhaps?

This predator "theory" merely adds a new layer to that. SJ might for all
intents and purposes be a species in liaison with the predators to transport
these weapons to the different species they want to incubate with them - for
training.

There wouldn't be a problem incorporating the Predators from AvP in the alien
universe as told in Alien. The question is if there would be a point. I suppose
that if you like to theorize about aliens, it's all good fun.

[Adam Cameron]

Post by Sandman
This predator "theory" merely adds a new layer to that. SJ might for all
intents and purposes be a species in liaison with the predators to transport
these weapons to the different species they want to incubate with them - for
training.
There wouldn't be a problem incorporating the Predators from AvP in the alien
universe as told in Alien. The question is if there would be a point. I suppose
that if you like to theorize about aliens, it's all good fun.

I still question whether there's any need *at all* to connect the two?

[ADWatts]

Post by Adam Cameron
I still question whether there's any need *at all* to connect the two?

There isn't.

Well . . . except to pry money out of wallets, that is.

Have a great day!

Ahmed

[Sandman]

Post by ADWatts

Post by Adam Cameron
I still question whether there's any need *at all* to connect the two?

There isn't.

How arrogant of you.

[Sandman]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Sandman
This predator "theory" merely adds a new layer to that. SJ might for
all intents and purposes be a species in liaison with the predators
to transport these weapons to the different species they want to
incubate with them - for training.
There wouldn't be a problem incorporating the Predators from AvP in
the alien universe as told in Alien. The question is if there would
be a point. I suppose that if you like to theorize about aliens, it's
all good fun.

I still question whether there's any need *at all* to connect the two?

There would be a need to do -such things- as tying AvP to Alien if one likes to
theorize about the Alien universe - which is just about every person in this
group. Now, not all would choose this particular theory - but the whole alien
lifecycle/bishop droid or human are the same kind of theories.

[Adam Cameron]

Post by Sandman

Post by Adam Cameron
I still question whether there's any need *at all* to connect the two?

There would be a need to do -such things- as tying AvP to Alien if one likes to
theorize about the Alien universe - which is just about every person in this
group. Now, not all would choose this particular theory - but the whole alien
lifecycle/bishop droid or human are the same kind of theories.

Sure. I see AvP as a Predator film which happened to pinch some ideas
(badly, for the most part) from Alien and its sequels. I don't see AvP as
anything to do with Alien.

Each to their own, though.

[Sandman]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Sandman

Post by Adam Cameron
I still question whether there's any need *at all* to connect the two?

There would be a need to do -such things- as tying AvP to Alien if
one likes to theorize about the Alien universe - which is just about
every person in this group. Now, not all would choose this particular
theory - but the whole alien lifecycle/bishop droid or human are the
same kind of theories.

Sure. I see AvP as a Predator film which happened to pinch some ideas
(badly, for the most part) from Alien and its sequels. I don't see
AvP as anything to do with Alien.

Oh, I was under the impression that you hadn't even seen the film. My
bad.

[Covenant]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Sandman
This predator "theory" merely adds a new layer to that. SJ might for all
intents and purposes be a species in liaison with the predators to transport
these weapons to the different species they want to incubate with them - for
training.
There wouldn't be a problem incorporating the Predators from AvP in the alien
universe as told in Alien. The question is if there would be a point. I suppose
that if you like to theorize about aliens, it's all good fun.

I still question whether there's any need *at all* to connect the two?

There was no real *need* to do so....

It was kinda a good idea slotted into Predator (The alien *skull* inside the
ship).
Apparently thats where the whole idea came from... A one-off *in* joke.

Not a *bad* idea. But it's what is being done with it that is screwing it.
(Although, if AvP was the goreferst it *should* have been, I wonder if we'd
even be having this kind of conversation !??)


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[Adam Cameron]

Post by Covenant
(Although, if AvP was the goreferst it *should* have been, I wonder if we'd
even be having this kind of conversation !??)

I enjoyed AvP more than A:R and either of the two preceding Predator films;
it's not that I think it's in itself a crappy film, I just don't consider
it a link to the Alien movies' "universe".

[Covenant]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by Covenant
(Although, if AvP was the goreferst it *should* have been, I wonder if we'd
even be having this kind of conversation !??)

I enjoyed AvP more than A:R and either of the two preceding Predator films;
it's not that I think it's in itself a crappy film, I just don't consider
it a link to the Alien movies' "universe".

Personally, apart from one or two little niggles (The cold being one of
them), I have little problem with it at *all*.


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[wmmvrrvrrmm]

Post by Robert
Space Jockey and the ship are just a plot device; as to who/what
they are, Ridley says it's a military ship and the cargo is weapons. Makes sense, jives
with what I personally always suspected, and the Man said it,

so....;) If somebody feels >a need to plug _that_ into the Predator
universe, I dunno....Predator's enemies, >perhaps?

I think to say that Ridley offers a theory that it is a military ship
rather than says it is would be more accurate. I suppose personally
that Ridley talks about this to offer likely discussion matter rather
than a solid point for a sequal which I think he would most likely
wish to keep under wraps and just offer red herrings about a likely
theory. And maybe the idea that he would have about the derelict and
it's "pilot" would be less obvious once the details were looked at.

I like the idea that he talks about it having biological (or did he
say bacteriological?) weapons in the way that Saddam Hussein has and
well in reflection of that statement, it seems that there is no proof
that Saddam had any biological weapons.

Looking at the derelict construct still causes me to ask many many
questions that result in confusion and more intricacy in my theories
about it.

Dom

[Robert]

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm

Post by Robert
Space Jockey and the ship are just a plot device; as to who/what
they are, Ridley says it's a military ship and the cargo is weapons. Makes sense, jives
with what I personally always suspected, and the Man said it,

so....;) If somebody feels >a need to plug _that_ into the Predator
universe, I dunno....Predator's enemies, >perhaps?
I think to say that Ridley offers a theory that it is a military ship
rather than says it is would be more accurate.

Yeah, I can see that interpretation.


I suppose personally

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm
that Ridley talks about this to offer likely discussion matter rather
than a solid point for a sequal which I think he would most likely
wish to keep under wraps and just offer red herrings about a likely
theory. And maybe the idea that he would have about the derelict and
it's "pilot" would be less obvious once the details were looked at.
I like the idea that he talks about it having biological (or did he
say bacteriological?)

Don't recall for sure - I think he's still trying to talk around the
lollipop
(or something) at this point.

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm
weapons in the way that Saddam Hussein has and
well in reflection of that statement,

Huh?


it seems that there is no proof

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm
that Saddam had any biological weapons.
Looking at the derelict construct still causes me to ask many many
questions that result in confusion and more intricacy in my theories
about it.

I guess when you have an artist like Giger on board....nothing's a
cigar. ;)

[wmmvrrvrrmm]

Post by Robert
I guess when you have an artist like Giger on board....nothing's a
cigar. ;)

I am now wondering about the possibilities of a biomechanic cigar


Dom

[wmmvrrvrrmm]

Post by Robert
I guess when you have an artist like Giger on board....nothing's a
cigar. ;)

I often think of the confusion about the final derelict being like a
result of a cut up and fold in experiment with cuttings from newspaper
columns, so that the words from one side of a column are matched up
with words from the other side of a column and new permutations of
sentences are created. That's the stuff that Burroughs was into. I
think though that it would a long time to work out where all the loose
threads in ideas about the derelict lead

So a sequel that would elaborate on the mysteries of the first film,
and ask more questions that we can not so easily answer, and I can not
begin to imagine what they could be at this moment in time, although I
am taking in ideas to imagine my own answers to the mysteries of Alien
leading to bigger questions since the obvious assumptions that I would
make at this point about what Alien was all about are not mind
expanding enough, and I need to find another turning point. And having
said that, I probably have hit that turning point a while ago but can
not yet put it in to words to make anything seem the slightest bit
worthy of talking about without going into lengthy descriptions of
fragments of thoughts.

For me it feels that Ridley with his questions about what the alien
was all about, was on some mesmerizing extistential trip worthy in
itself of the endless thoughts that one might attribut to something
like 2001 A Space Odyssey or even Solaris, and then again, all those
thoughts that he had may have long gone by now and changed into
something else

Dom

Dom

[Robert]

Post by wmmvrrvrrmm
For me it feels that Ridley with his questions about what the alien
was all about, was on some mesmerizing extistential trip worthy in
itself of the endless thoughts that one might attribut to something
like 2001 A Space Odyssey

Nah, he just ran up behind us and yelled "Boo!" ;)

[saby]

Sure you have discussed this hundred of times, but I want to know which
is the most prefered opinion.

How do the eggs arrive to the Sulaco at the beggining of Alien 3?

Thanks!

[Covenant]

Post by saby
Sure you have discussed this hundred of times, but I want to know which
is the most prefered opinion.
How do the eggs arrive to the Sulaco at the beggining of Alien 3?

The most preffered version is...

Bad scriptwriting.

;' )


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

[wmmvrrvrrmm]

Post by Covenant
The most preffered version is...
Bad scriptwriting.
;' )

if they had sounds of scampering facehuggers at the end credits of
Alien Resurrection as a film joke, that would have be the possible
beginning for Alien 5

[ADWatts]

Post by saby
How do the eggs arrive to the Sulaco at the beggining of Alien 3?
Thanks!

Well, it's all so clear now. The Predators put it there.

:-P

Ahmed

[Adam Cameron]

Post by ADWatts
Well, it's all so clear now. The Predators put it there.

Don't start!

;-)

[Vigil]

Post by Adam Cameron

Post by ADWatts
Well, it's all so clear now. The Predators put it there.

Don't start!

Hmm, interesting. Blah blah blah, blah-de blah-blah. What free newsserver
can I use when Individual shuts me off?

[Brian]

Sure you have discussed this hundred of times, but I want to know which is
the most prefered opinion.
How do the eggs arrive to the Sulaco at the beggining of Alien 3?

No, not a flame..but poor writing...honestly.

There is no way around it because look where the egg is when they show it
open in the credits..it looks like it is hanging from the locker area on the
ship.I have no theories at all.

[wmmvrrvrrmm]

Post by Brian
There is no way around it because look where the egg is when they show it
open in the credits..it looks like it is hanging from the locker area on the
ship.I have no theories at all.

I made the assumption that they were beneath the floor in the dropship
hanger, where Newt was hiding from the queen.

[Greg Farr]

Post by saby
Sure you have discussed this hundred of times, but I want to know which
is the most prefered opinion.
How do the eggs arrive to the Sulaco at the beggining of Alien 3?
Thanks!

with the Egg man.

Greg
http://gregsplace.50megs.com
http://www.picturetrail.com/fugitive1

[Covenant]

"Greg Farr" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...


*****> On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:00:26 +0100, saby <***@hotmail.com>
wrote:*****

Post by Greg Farr

Post by saby
Sure you have discussed this hundred of times, but I want to know which
is the most prefered opinion.
How do the eggs arrive to the Sulaco at the beggining of Alien 3?
Thanks!

with the Egg man.

Thats some lag your server's got !!!!

[Brian]

Those things aside, I still can't help but be entertained by AvP.

Post by ADWatts
"If you go back to the first Alien, there's a plot problem which AVP
nicely solves. In the ship they found on the planet, there's a whole
section which is designed just for the purpose of preserving the
aliens' eggs. Yet the ship itself was not built by those aliens, but
by different aliens. Remember the navigator whose chest had been blown
open from inside? So presumably that ship was built by the predators,
and carried alien eggs--one of which got out."
Now you see, this is one reason I ****HATE**** AvP. Now we
have supposed "plot-holes" in Alien <snicker> being explained away
by the presence of Predators.
Sickening.
Anyone else have thoughts on the above quote. Agreeing or disagreeing,
or wanting to puke like me?
If this is the direction that the *Alien* universe is headed, count me out.
And if morons like that start showing up here . . .
<deep breath> It's only a movie, it's only a movie . . .
Sorry, but that post really "bugged" me. :-)
Ahmed